Vikings Season 5 Episode 10: Senior Moments

Contrary to the mostly critical reaction to Vikings season 5, I’ve been quite forgiving of this season. It’s understandable that, this being the first full season without Ragnar Lothbrok, there would be some kinks to iron out. And I stand by my reviews, which you are free to read and take issue with if you want. Each episode is a solid effort at entertaining and progressing the story. However, the season as a whole is a waste of promising starts and unfinished thoughts, accumulating in a finale that is utterly frustrating.

The decision to structure the final battle as a mosaic of character moments before and during the fighting must have seemed inspired. Rather than having another battle episode so soon after the last, they could frame this battle from the perspective of each character, jumping throughout the timeline of the battle. As an idea, it’s a creative solution to avoid repetition. In execution however, it just simply doesn’t work.

The point of building up to something is the satisfaction of seeing the thing you’ve waited forever to see actually happen. It’s like two characters falling in love and then having their first kiss happen off screen. The final battle depicted in ‘Moments of Vision’ is unintentionally anticlimactic because we don’t really get to see very much of the battle. We see little flashes here and there of individual characters being killed or spared but it’s impossible to know how the battle is actually going.

Peter Franzén as King Harald Finehair requests that Queen Astrid, played here by Josefin Asplund, cuts his hair in the midseason finale of Vikings season 5.

Astrid: Demon barber of Vestfold.

The intention here was for the battle to be emotional, by showing the characters preparing for battle and then immediately showing the same character in the thick of the fighting, allowing the viewer to connect with that character, rather than perhaps becoming distracted by the progression of the fighting if it had been shown linearly. The problem is that with so much jumping back and forth there’s never really any time to mourn. A character meets their end and the episode instantly jumps to another. The episode lurches around so much that it’s difficult to feel anything other than motion sickness.

Of the deaths themselves, they’re more irritating that sad. What was the point of Björn setting aside Torvi and taking a new Sami wife just for Saefrid to die here? Or for Astrid to be seen by the child during her rape? Their storylines become meaningless because their characters were killed before anything could come of them. Of the character deaths, Halfdan’s was the most sad and his was one of the few character moments that I enjoyed. His talk with Björn about having found something worth living for outside of family and land put the character in perspective. Halfdan was a character defined by being the brother of Harald Finehair but this season put considerable work into making the character stand on his own, only for that journey to put him at odds with the brother he once stood with.

The story of Halfdan and Harald is contrasted with that of Ubbe and Hvitserk. While Harald does not hesitate to slay his brother is pursuit of his goal, Ubbe is unable to deal the same blow to Hvitserk. Hvitserk doesn’t even attempt to stop him, Ubbe stops himself every time, eventually turning and leaving his brother. This isn’t done to suggest that Ubbe loves his brother more than Harald loves his, I believe. Instead, it demonstrates how far Harald will go to achieve his dream. For the sake of Kattegat, Ubbe is not willing to kill his own kin, but Harald does.

Clive Standen makes a foreboding return as Rollo in the midseason finale of Vikings Season 5.

How unlikely is it that he brought Gisela with him?

Despite these nice character moments and juxtaposition, ‘Visions of Moments’ still fails to impress over all. While I can appreciate the creativity and the artfullness of the episode, it lacks substance and cohesion. The result is confusing and frustrating rather than emotive, trying much harder to do what a simple straightforward narrative could have achieved. Sometimes the simplest option is the best, an idiom that this episode would have done well to remember.

Peppered throughout the battle were scenes from Kattegat and Iceland. Margrethe is becoming literally insane, teasing the decision to murder Björn’s children in order to move Ubbe up the line of succession. Wisely she doesn’t follow through, probably realising that her head would be next on the chopping block when Björn and Torvi return. Floki, meanwhile, continues to broker peace, though it turns out to be too little too late. In a last ditch attempt to change human nature, he offers himself up as a human sacrifice, though we have to wait until the next part of season 5 to actually see it. And just as the dust settles on the battlefield, Clive Standen rows back into town. Of all the things to look forward to in Season five part b, I’m excited to see Rollo, especially in the absence of Ragnar.

If you enjoyed ‘Moments of Visions’ of thought it was a fitting end to the season, let me know in the comments below. Or send me a comment/tweet via your preferred method of social media. I’m on most of them. If you liked this post and would like to read more, subscribe to keep up to date with new content. And be sure to check out some older posts, such as earlier Viking season 5 episode reviews or this review of Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle. And if you’ve got your fill of reviews and editorials, I can also offer fiction. You can read my original novel, Carrion Youth, for free online over at swoonreads.com

Vikings Season 5 Episodes 8 and 9 Review

Before I get into the review proper, let me apologise for the lack of review last week for episode 8, ‘The Joke’. I came down with a touch of the flu that seems to be going around at the minute and just didn’t have the energy or mental fortitude to write the review. So this week is going to be something of a combined review, looking at both episodes 8 and 9 of Vikings’ 5th season.

If there has been one consistent criticism of this season of Vikings it is that Ivar has been written too strong. It’s understandable how viewers might feel like that after Ivar and his army rolled over the Saxons repeatedly, but narratively it made sense. There would be little point in Ivar winning by the skin of his teeth in England, only to turn his attention back to his homeland in Kattegat. No one would follow him after such a narrow victory and he wouldn’t really be seen as a threat to Lagertha. Everything before episode 8 was building Ivar up as a credible threat to the Kingdom of Kattegat.

Within the story, Ivar’s seeming invincibility also works because he’s operating from a position of strength. After they take York, thanks to Ubbe’s tactics and memory of Ragnar’s advice, he is able to make use of his position to defend and outsmart the attacking Saxons. That’s not to suggest that Ivar is simply lucky or taking credit for being in the right place at the right time; it’s his tactics and understanding of his enemies that allows him to lure them into situations where he can press his advantage. But, as episode 8 shows, when the sides are flipped and he can’t manipulate the situation, he loses that position of strength.

Alex Høgh and Josefin Asplund as Ivar the Boneless,and Astrid as they listen to the outcome of the battle.

Wait…wait…oops, too late to help.

This is shown in the way that Björn and Ubbe are able telegraph Ivar’s tactics and effectively cut him off, such as utilising the Sami in the woods to negate their use for flanking. Feinting an attack on the ships also allows them to divide the army, lessening the force they have to defeat. Ivar has been built up as an amazing strategist throughout this season and here he is completely outplayed by his brothers. And given the change in circumstances, it makes sense for Ivar to be defeated here without making it seem like that writers just allowed Lagertha and her army to win in order to prolong this Harald Finehair plot.

If episode 8 does have one flaw, it wastes a little too much time on the will they/won’t they prelude to the battle. This is a fight that Vikings has been setting up for over twenty episodes; they weren’t fooling anyone into believing it wasn’t happening and it would be anti-climatic if it hadn’t. Also I found the arguments that brothers shouldn’t fight a bit hard to stomach given that Ragnar and Rollo were at odds numerous times over the past four seasons.

Speaking of Rollo, episode 9 throws Ivar and Harald a saving grace in the form of Rollo’s Frankish soldiers. It is odd that Rollo is able to send his men, a portion of the Frankish army to fight in foreign wars, although maybe he’s able to play it off as part of the deal to keep raiders away from Frankish shores. Mostly though I’m just disappointed that Clive Standen is unable to make an appearance, or Morgane Polanski as Princess Gisla. Their relationship was one of the most interesting parts of season 4 and it’s a pity we can’t see more of it in season 5.

Jonathan Rhys Meyers as Bishop Heahmund pledges his allegiance to Queen Lagertha, played by  Katheryn Winnick.

God? What God?

Missed opportunities aside, Björn attempts to negotiate peace with Ivar and Harald, which doesn’t work, setting the scene for another battle in next week’s finale. One interesting moment worth noting is that Ivar attempts to have Björn killed but is stopped by Harald because it’s not their way. This is probably pretty smart, given that Hvitserk secured the use of the Frankish soldiers on Rollo’s orders that Björn be spared. Over in Lagertha’s camp, Heahmund pledges his sword to Lagertha, a little too quickly for my taste. Heahmund’s lusts have always been in conflict with his religion but he is overly mesmerised by Lagertha after barely talking. I can buy that Lagertha might be a more acceptable ally for him over Ivar but it would have been preferable if he at least struggled with the choice or if Lagertha’s previous experiences with Æthelstan helped influence him.

In Wessex, Æthelstan’s son Alfred becomes ruler after King Æthelwulf dies of a bee sting and Judith basically forces her first born to give up his birthright. He does and then immediately begins making murder eyes at his brother. This only works if Æthelred is betting on Alfred’s failure so that he can swoop in and save the day, otherwise he gains nothing by refusing the throne and then being upset about it. Sure he might be bitter, but wouldn’t he be more upset at the betrayal of their mother than Alfred? Meanwhile, in Iceland, Floki’s settlement continues to struggle to settle. As with every week, this storyline continues to be so detached from everything else that whether it’s good or bad doesn’t matter because it’s irrelevant.

And that’s the review for episode 8 and 9 done, just in time for the part 1 season finale next week. I think we’ll continue to see a culling of the old guard so to speak, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see Lagertha and maybe Floki die in episode 10, entitled ‘Moments of Vision’. Though Floki may be the only thing keeping people invested in the Iceland story, but I definitely don’t see Lagertha continue to fend off Harald and Ivar for much longer. It may not be a complete victory for them either but I believe Lagertha will be a casualty either way. To find out how it actually plays out and my thoughts on the episode, check out this blog next week for a review of the finale, all being well. While you wait, you can find my reviews for previous episodes here. To keep up to date with new content you can follow this blog directly or through various social media profiles. If that’s not enough you can also read my novel, Carrion Youth, for free online, over at swoonreads.com. Until next week, thanks for reading.

Vikings Season 5 Episode 7 review: Sami Marriage Customs

After six episodes of losing men, kidnapped lovers and allied enemies, Lagertha finally caught a break. Not only has her son returned to her in this time of need but she also made a valuable alliance with the Sami, somewhat evening the odds against Harald Finehair and Ivar the Boneless. Though not everything is sunshine and daisies now. With Björn comes Harald’s brother, Halfdan, and though he says that he’ll fight with Björn, Lagertha is weary of trusting him. As she points out, his brother gave his word not to go to war and didn’t keep his promise.

Over in Vestfold, trust issues abound also. Ivar’s biggest concern is whether he can trust Bishop Heahmund. Again, these two actors play well off each other and it’s interesting to see the two characters discuss how their religions view something as routine as the moon. But at the core is Ivar’s desire for fame. Ivar wants to be so charismatic and magnetic that people from all walks of life will be drawn to him and praise him. He already recognises Heahmund’s worth as a warrior and wants Heahmund’s respect in return.

Jonathan Rhys Meyers as Bishop Heahmund, and Alex Høgh as Ivar the Boneless play a board game in season 5, episode 7 of History's Vikings.

Ivar strikes me as the type of player to knock over the board if he starts losing.

Bishop Heahmund, however, does not seem to want to see Ivar as anything other than an inconvenience that God will eventually provide escape from. The determinism discussion is one that has gone on in religious communities since the dawn of time. While the discussion itself is interesting in that we get to see how Heahmund, Ivar and Hvitserk view their own actions, a more immediately practical effect of the conversation is how Ivar dismisses his brother over Heahmund, and that Heahmund is privy to this exchange. Heahmund, though pious, we know from events in the series, is capable of indulging in his darker urges from time to time. He’s not to type to simply sit back and wait for rescue. It seems unlikely that Heahmund will outright betray Ivar, because that would get him killed, but could he cause dissension between the brothers? That seems plausible, and not particularly difficult given already strained relationship between the sons of Ragnar.

Speaking of the sons of Ragnar, Björn and Ubbe are now together in Kattegat and both are making some serious relationship decisions. Björn has what has to be the most amicable divorce ever shown on television, all while making eyes at a Sami Chief’s daughter. Ubbe then immediately kisses Björn’s ex-wife, Torvi, which his wife, Margrethe, witnesses. Not to be deterred, Margrethe confronts Ubbe and tells him of her ambition to go from being a free slave to Queen. It’s getting all very The O.C. in Kattegat. Most of this likely won’t mean anything. Even if Ubbe does end up ruling, it’ll probably be temporary but more probable is that he continues to support Björn, and Margrethe will be murdered before anything can become of her. The most significant development is Björn’s marriage to Snaefrid, which is first of all an important alliance but could also signal that Björn is ready to more seriously rule his father’s kingdom.

Snaefrid was one of the stand-out characters of this episode. While Alexander Ludwig is likeable and has done an excellent job of channelling Travis Fimmel’s Ragnar Lothbrok, there was the risk that Snaefrid would be overshadowed by his character. Snaefrid is silent for a large part of the episode, communicating only through an ambiguous stare, but when her character does speak she commands the scene, and not just because she’s talking about chewing reindeer balls. (Whether that’s a legitimate method of castration is debatable, though it is banned in Norway for what it’s worth.) Her gentle mocking of Björn and confidence solidified the character as engaging. It’s the type of character that I hope we get to see more of. Though hopefully Björn doesn’t become a character with numerous adventures that could be developed but aren’t.

Despite having such a large role last week, Astrid is relegated to one scene in ‘Full Moon’. Initially it seemed like the sickness was just a result of the violent sexual assault from ‘The Message’ but if that was the case it seems risky for Astrid to proclaim that she might be with child. Instead, her awkwardness and apprehension can be interpreted as her knowing that even if she is with child, it is likely not Harald’s. And she’s still possibly unsure as to whether Harald knows or not. It’s possible that the peeking child is a red herring, but more probable is that he’s a Chekov’s gun. Maybe Harald doesn’t know yet, but that gun will fire.

Alexander Ludwig as Bjorn Ironside, meets Snaefrid, played by Dagny Backer Johnson, in season 5, episode 7 of History's Vikings.

It’s not like Ragnar’s courting abilities were much better.

The rest of the episode is filled with side stories of Floki’s settlement in Iceland and Alfred’s visit to Lindisfarne, both of which are unnecessary and distracting. The Icelandic settlement has devolved into another power struggle, and an illogical one at that. It’s pretty simply resolved by Floki simply not taking any title or role as King, which has never been his ambition. If anything, Floki is the seer that people go to for advice and gives cryptic statements that confuse as much as they help. Meanwhile, Alfred’s plot was fairly pointless. He didn’t learn anything of note about Æthelstan, so all it served to do was make some heavy-handed nods towards Alfred’s future church reforms and some sort of dual spirit prayer. Don’t get me wrong, I like both these characters. I just wish they were being given something interesting and worthwhile to do.

With ‘Full Moon’ wrapped up, all that’s left is to wait for the big battle in next week’s episode, somewhat humorously titled, ‘The Joke’. While you wait for episode 8, you can read up on reviews of the first six reviews here. There are also film reviews, such as the recent review of Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle. Or you can find my review of Battle of the Sexes on moviequotesandmore.com. If all of that has whet your appetite, satisfy your hunger with some original fiction by reading my novel, Carrion Youth, for free online over at Swoonreads.com. Until next time, thanks for reading.

Vikings Season 5 Episode 6 Review: Stranger in a Strange Land

Another week, another Vikings review. This week in episode 6, entitled ‘The Message’, Ivar makes a plan with King Harald Finehair, Astrid undergoes horrific circumstances in order to warn Lagertha, Floki’s group has a mole and Björn’s fate in the desert is revealed. Starting from the last point, despite the dire situation Björn and Halfdan were in at the end of last week, theirs is actually the most simple and disappointing part of this week’s episode. They simply block the swinging swords and escape under the cover of the sandstorm. They’re later seen sailing for Kattegat, reducing this storyline to naught. Hopefully, after this war with Harald and Ivar, Björn will return to the Mediterranean, similar to how Ragnar returned to England and Paris. For Vikings to set up this location and these characters with their relationships, it would be underwhelming if this wound up being a one and done excursion that ended in failure.

Instead, much of the run time was devoted to Astrid this week. Astrid is an odd character and one that I’ve never fully connected or engaged with. She showed up last season as a lover of Lagertha while also acting as something of a bodyguard. Largely though her function seemed to be to bolster the ranks of Lagertha’s all female council. Despite generally being loyal, she has shown some shades of rebellion, namely when she was upset at Lagertha for not trusting her and slept with Björn as a means of revenge. But as the story has shifted further and further away from Kattegat, Astrid’s role hasn’t felt important.

This season suddenly thrust the shieldmaiden into the forefront of the looming war between Harald and Lagertha. Her kidnapping by Harald was unexpected but it also seemed like Harald was able to offer her something that she wanted. Though she was Lagertha’s lover, she would never be queen, but she could be with Harald. Again, she’d disagreed with Lagertha previously, and this seemed like an opportunity for her realise some of her ambition. And she really seemed to be coming around to the idea, frolicking and flirting with Harald at the beginning of this episode. By the episode’s end though, it was all revealed to be an act, and Astrid was being gang-raped by some fishermen to ensure a warning got to Lagertha.

Astrid, played by Josefin Asplund, makes a traumatic sacrifice to warn Kattegat of impending attack in 'The Message', episode 6 of season 5 of History's Vikings.

Astrid, just before the scene in question.

It was a horrible situation for Astrid to be in and seems to underline her loyalty to Lagertha. Worse still is that in the next scene, Lagertha is praising the fisherman for being an ally of Astrid’s. It was more surprising that they delivered the message since they run a lot less risk of just taking what they wanted from Astrid and then just saying they delivered the message without actually doing so. Hopefully, Astrid finds some way of exacting revenge on these men before the season’s end, but that’s only if Harald doesn’t discover Astrid’s treachery before they attack. There was a child just outside during that rape scene.

One of the consistently enjoyable scenes of this season is the interaction of Ivar and Heahmund, first from a far on the battlefield and now in their jail discussions. Ivar connects with Heahmund and reveals details of his life that he wouldn’t with anyone else. Though it’s not as friendly as Ragnar and Æthelstan, Ivar does seem to trust Heahmund, confiding in him in the way one might to a Bishop or Priest. It’s interesting how Ivar is engaging with the religious figure despite not following the religion himself.

It’s also notable that Ivar knows not to make this about religion. Heahmund states that he will gladly die for his faith, but Ivar points out that he’s a prisoner of war. If he isn’t going to be killed because of his faith, he can’t be considered a martyr. Ivar takes the steam out of Heahmund’s argument, leaving Heahmund only with the choice of fight and live or refuse and die. Ivar is trusting in Heahmund’s desire to live, of the weakness of the flesh and his love of fighting. And by the episode’s end, Heahmund is on board with killing more ‘heathens’.

Jonathan Rhys Meyers' Bishop Heahmund is brought before Ivar to choose whether or not to fight for the Vikings in 'The Message', the sixth episode of the fifth season of History's Vikings.

He’s crazy but at least he’s on our side.

The rest of the episode is devoted to the young Prince Alfred and Floki’s people arriving in Iceland. In Iceland, they find it doesn’t quite live up to Floki’s hype but they’ve set to go inland and find the hot springs and fertile volcanic ground. Alfred, on the other hand, makes a promise to his grandfather, King Ecbert, to drive out the pagans and restore the kingdom. Part one of this plan is to visit Lindisfarne to connect with the memory of his birth father. While the intention of this quest is interesting, what can Lindisfarne really teach Alfred? Much of Æthelstan’s personal understanding and revelation of God came after his abduction in places such as Kattegat and Wessex. This is likely just a narrative opportunity to underline Alfred’s piety and possibly provide another vision.

Perhaps it’s all the turkey I’ve consumed in the past week, but this episode was rather detached. There were a couple bright spots, however, ‘The Message’ is very evidently gearing up for a battle so much of this episode is just posturing and moving the pieces into place. Though given the whole ‘two moons’ deadline it’s unlikely that the battle will even come next week. Hopefully episode 7, ‘Full Moon’ will feature more Ivar and Heahmund and less rape.

As always, thanks for reading. If you’d like to read my previous reviews of this season of Vikings, you can find them here. While you’re there you might also one to check out my film reviews such as my recent review of Star Wars: The Last Jedi. To keep up to date with content posted to this blog, hit the subscribe button or follow me on social media. I’m on most of them. Finally, while you polish off the last of the mince pies, you can read my own novel, Carrion Youth, for free online over at Swoonreads.com. Until next week.

Vikings Season 5 Episode 3 Review: It’s a Trap

This week on Vikings, Ivar sets a trap, Ubbe makes a bad decision, Hvitserk chooses a side and the battle of York doesn’t quite go to plan for Æthelwulf and Heahmund. This was a fun and gruesome episode featuring more action than we’ve seen in premiere episodes. It was a nice change of pace. Vikings likes to have its character stare off introspectively or talk about their ambitious so when a large chunk of time is devoted a battle you know it’s a big deal. And the battle of York was very important as it was the Great Heathen Army’s first defence against a Saxon attack (previously the Vikings had been the aggressors) and an opportunity for numerous characters to prove themselves.

Pre-battle the Saxon forces are informed that the Vikings still haven’t rebuilt the old Roman walls around York, and decide to move forward on using this as a means of attack. The over-reliance on the walls as a weakness seemed sure to backfire though and it had been constantly mentioned over the past few episodes by Heahmund and not at all by Ivar or the others. That, along with the decision to wait rather than immediately take advantage, left viewers expecting that the Ivar knew about the walls and was planning a trap.

What wasn’t quite anticipated was just how brutal the trap would be. The expectation was that maybe the Vikings would lead the army into an enclosed space and then surround them, effectively both flanking and bottle-necking the Saxon army. Instead a series of well placed spike pits and oil drops led to the Saxons practically killing themselves and having to step over the dead to even retreat. This was a great tactic because not only did they physically reduce the size of the army they’re fighting with minimal effort but it also has a demoralising effect to have to step on their brothers-in-laws. These are people they’ve likely fought with and trusted to have their backs and now they have to make a choice of self-preservation over that loyalty and camaraderie. The effect is that when the Vikings finally meet the Saxons head on, they’re fighting a smaller, traumatised army.

Alex Høgh's Ivar taunts the Saxon army at the Battle of York in season 5 episode 3 of History's Vikings.

Ivar is the life of the party.

Of course, Ivar, bloodsoaked and laughing is also pretty demoralising to any army. It’s a testament to Alex Høgh’s acting that he can convincingly play sympathetic in one episode and utterly demented in another. And with this victory, Ivar wins over most of the Great Heathen Army, cementing himself as the de facto leader. It helps that Ubbe’s argument that he saved Ivar’s life is rather flimsy. In fact the army was going to run to Ivar’s side when Ubbe postponed them for…reasons? It doesn’t seem like Ubbe to genuinely consider leaving his brother to the mercy of the Saxons, especially not so publicly, but it appears that he must have been conflicted at least because there’s no other reason, least one I can see, for Ubbe to wait.

Of course, Ubbe is particularly sore because Ivar’s rise contradicts his own status as the eldest brother. They argue over their next move but Ubbe doesn’t trust Ivar and leaves to propose peace to the Saxons against Ivar’s suggestion. Given that Ivar is waiting for them when they return, this seems like another case of Ivar setting a trap. It’s likely that he could have stopped his brothers when they were leaving but choose to let them go because he knew that if they failed it would only serve to make his case look better.

And fail it does. Ubbe and Hvitserk get roughed up, their men killed and sent back to York with no peace and no land. Though its framed oddly within the show with the narrative jumping back and forth in time to reveal what actually happened at the Saxon camp while the brothers are being admonished by Ivar upon their return. It’s a strange deviation from linear storytelling and a pointless one since it adds nothing to the plot and is more confusing than attention grabbing.

Jordan Patrick Smith's Ubbe watches as his brother Hvitserk joins Ivar in season 5 episode 3 of History's Vikings.

Battered, humbled and alone.

Speaking of failure, the Saxons made a mistake of beating up Ubbe and Hvitserk and letting them go. I’m not suggesting that Æthelwulf should have accepted their demands, although he did seem to consider it (I did like Alfred suggesting that advocating giving them the land to farm given that the real life Alfred is famous for creating distinct boundaries between Wessex and the Danelaw.). Why wouldn’t they just capture Ubbe and/or Hvitserk and hold them for ransom? Ivar, for all his pomp, does care for his brothers and it would also have made Ivar look weak to his army if he didn’t want to leave York to save his brothers. As it is, Heahmund and Æthelwulf have only succeeded in further aggravating an enemy they just failed to beat in battle.

Ubbe poses the question that Ragnar would hate Ivar for breaking up his family, to which Ivar disagrees. Ragnar certainly had a remarkable love for his family (or at least his sons). But he didn’t always show it in traditional ways and it would certainly be like Ragnar to put results ahead of irritating his family. This is the same man who on more than one occasion fought his brother on the battle field. But it’s also the man who opted to choose non-aggression with Ecbert in favour of land that this people could farm. Ragnar was at many times both a farmer and a warrior and an adventurer, whereas his sons seem to represent different aspects of their father. So, Ubbe and Ivar are both right.

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